Anneli Marinovich (00:01.083)
Welcome back to the Mind and Muscle Beyond 40 podcast. This is really exciting because today we're not just talking about strengthening your body and mind, but we're actually talking about investing in the armour that you need to wear your journey with pride. And I'm actually talking to the woman today who is literally hand pressing her wayinto the future of basically over 40s wellbeing. The incredible Vanessa read out from the epiphany closet.
She's joining me today and I'm so so excited. We've got a wonderful chat planned for you because we've realized that ageing strong is a two part story, isn't it? You're looking after your mind and your body, but you're also taking care of yourself and really leaning into self love. So we're going to chat about that. And Vanessa is here to make, chat with me about her own journey as a founder, how she started the epiphany closet and what led her to the moment of deciding to push through into that.
But we are basically combining the art of ageing strong with the power of self-love just in time for International Women's Day. And we are collaborating and we'll share more about that in a while. But this is really interesting because we met for the first time in 2024 in Manchester at a networking event and I think we just hit it off.
Where are we now? Two years later, we've decided to do this podcast together. And it's really exciting because we've got a lot to share. We've got a lot in common. We're going to chat about menopause today. I want to chat as well about the invisible woman myth because it's such a huge myth amongst women in our age group. And, you know, I want to talk about the fact that our best years aren't behind us. And so we are collaborating to bring you this podcast. I'm so excited. Vanessa, welcome to the show.
Vanessa Ridout (01:52.11)
Thank you. It's good to be here.
Anneli Marinovich (01:53.169)
So good to have you here. She's rocking the epiphany closet. Look at that jumper. And I am also rocking my newly branded epiphany closet vest. This is my staple piece for the gym. So I'm so excited to be branded when I walk around the gym. Yeah, it's great. So if you're new to the mind and muscle beyond 40 podcast, welcome. This is a podcast where we cover five different pillars of what it takes to age strong and to take care of yourself mentally, physically.
Vanessa Ridout (02:08.11)
It looks good.
Anneli Marinovich (02:22.727)
hormonally. So we look at topics like nutrition, biohacking, mindset, muscle, and obviously also hormonal health. But this podcast for me is also a channel to bring you incredible women like Vanessa who have a passion for helping women over 40 and not just women over 40, but women in general, to really just lean into self love and to really just celebrate ourselves a bit more.
So thank you for joining us and make sure that you subscribe. And if you're watching this on YouTube, make sure you hit the like button and let's get into it, shall we? So I'm curious, what was the point where you decided to, the specific moment when you realized that you wanted to start your own business? So the moment from thinking I should do this to actually pressing full send, can you tell us about that?
Vanessa Ridout (03:11.702)
To be honest, even in my 20s when I was still having children, really wanted to, I've never liked working for somebody particularly. I've always wanted to be my own boss. I think it's just because I believe in time autonomy and even in my 20s.
Anneli Marinovich (03:21.766)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa Ridout (03:28.246)
I wanted to create something that I could work around having children and obviously things change, you know, you can never predict what's going to happen. And then I had a hysterectomy in my late thirties, which led to some like complete body changes. So and complete mindset changes like we were talking about then. So.
Anneli Marinovich (03:46.727)
Wow.
Anneli Marinovich (03:51.388)
Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (03:54.734)
Going into a corporate world, having to sort of provide for my children, I realised I just wasn't particularly enjoying what I was doing. I wasn't really respected. I personally, was, I say it, there was a lot of internal misogyny in my workplace. So I, and obviously going through menopause at such a young age.
Anneli Marinovich (04:12.273)
Wow.
Anneli Marinovich (04:17.895)
Mm.
Vanessa Ridout (04:18.926)
handling that and trying to explain that to your colleagues and your employers is so hard. So I just thought I need to get, absolutely. And I needed to get out, but I couldn't afford to do that. So, you know, it just a case of just pushing through, creating a business while I was still working. And
Anneli Marinovich (04:24.845)
so young my goodness yeah
Vanessa Ridout (04:40.214)
And I literally had an epiphany and that was the moment. I think something had happened in my life and I think this is going to sound really strange, but I think my cat died. It was really weird. Very, very precious animal to me. A very gorgeous Persian cat. And I find it quite funny telling the story, but I think I just, it was my, I've had a lot of grief. I've dealt with grief in life. I've, you know, this was just, to some people, an animal.
Anneli Marinovich (04:51.269)
Wow. Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (05:08.558)
but it actually made me wake up in the middle of the night and I just thought what am I doing? I feel really sad about this, I feel really unhappy, I feel unhappy in my job. I need to make a change so I did. I just created the epiphany closet and you know what you know sometimes you you go around the houses to think well I've got to get the proper brand name, I really want this to be perfect and actually
Anneli Marinovich (05:27.739)
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Vanessa Ridout (05:31.086)
I had my epiphany and many people said, oh, I don't know, it's a bit long for a business. I just needed to do it. And I thought epiphany, closet, clothing. And yeah, I've never thought of changing it ever. I've always been really comfortable with it. So yeah, I'm really pleased that I had that epiphany. Thank you.
Anneli Marinovich (05:46.895)
It's got such a lovely ring to it.
It really does and obviously, you know, the whole idea of wearing your feelings and what you're actually, what's sitting on your heart, on your chest, I just absolutely love that. And being able to go to your closet to bring those feelings out, that's even better, that's incredible.
Vanessa Ridout (05:58.733)
You are.
Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (06:05.942)
Yeah, it's a hard one to explain to people. You know, when people put a Nike hoodie on, you know, I mean, there's plenty of other well-known brands that I could reference, but you are putting on something that has a slogan and a meaning and that's been going for many years. Whereas something, when you start a small brand like this, it's really hard to get started. But, and actually it's also really hard to have the confidence to know that your brand is worthy. You know, it's a hard one to do.
Anneli Marinovich (06:36.369)
think being self-employed and starting any sort of business, especially as a woman, is really difficult to build up that self-confidence of pushing forward into an area that's completely new to you. And then you do that, in your case, what you were doing that while you were facing these incredible hormonal changes, and having kids as well, there's a lot of balls in the air at that point, isn't there? So what a journey.
Vanessa Ridout (07:01.196)
Yeah, it's not easy. think also financially I had to sort stay in my job until I could get the funds together to be able to like take that leap and leave a full-time job, know, as the provider. Very difficult.
Anneli Marinovich (07:06.46)
Mm-hmm.
Anneli Marinovich (07:13.659)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what year was this when you actually started the epiphany closet?
Vanessa Ridout (07:21.006)
Gosh, think it was 2023. I think I thought about it, yeah, it's been three years in the sort of space of creating it, but actually launched January 2024. Yeah, January, it was on my birthday.
Anneli Marinovich (07:37.671)
Because I remember us talking about this. So you and I met in August 2024 at a networking event in Manchester. And big shout out to Fiona from the Write field. She launched a business called the Beauty and the brand, is essentially an opportunity for women in business to network and to have fun together. we, Fiona and Roxie created this event in Manchester and...
Vanessa Ridout (07:42.574)
Mm.
Anneli Marinovich (08:04.376)
I jumped on the train with my friend Joe, went up there and there was a fitness element to it which was really exciting and then there was a networking event in the evening. So yeah, we met each other that evening, had a fantastic time. I mean, there were many drinks. There were so many drinks. There was a catwalk as well. I remember the catwalk. But it was so great. And I think one of the things that struck me most about you since when I met you for the first time was just your warmth and your heart for women.
Vanessa Ridout (08:17.899)
Hahaha
standard.
Anneli Marinovich (08:34.598)
and just the genuine care and authenticity. whenever I see a post of yours on Instagram and whenever I think of the Epiphany closet, always, I can sense and I can feel that warmth. And you know, whenever I've ordered clothes from you and I'll share my sweater in a minute, I'm so excited about that. But whenever I wear it, it's almost like I can feel your love that you put into your business through the clothing and through your presence. Sorry.
So yeah, so I just remember being really comfortable when we met each other and then we just started talking about everything and realized that, you know, it is women, it's so important for women to understand their worth and it makes me really sad and I'm reading a book at the moment that talks a lot about self-worth and how self-worth is not the same as self-esteem because self-esteem is something you feel whereas self-worth is something you know in your heart.
And I feel like, you know, it's that we can probably chat about that for days, but yeah, it just felt really easy when we met and, you know, fast forward all this time later, and now we've both got businesses that really focus on empowering women from my point of view with mind and muscle beyond 40 physically and mentally. And from your perspective, you know, the mindset and the community and that self love, I think it's such a, it's so great to see how things have grown since we met. It's great.
Vanessa Ridout (09:55.126)
Yeah, it is. mean, there was such a bunch and a bunch of women and that was my first ever networking event. to go up alone and just walk into a room and, you know, it was it was completely sort of out of my comfort zone. And obviously I only haven't been in business for six months, let's say.
But yeah, we were so welcomed. And I just remember you walking in and I just remember saying to a lady I didn't know on the table, I was like, I like that lady's dress it was like, angry.
Anneli Marinovich (10:27.204)
I looked like a mermaid. I was wearing a dress. It had literally little shells on it that vibrated when I walked. It was ridiculous, but it was party wear, so you know.
Vanessa Ridout (10:35.914)
It was, no it was stunning and I think like you said we connected straight away as did we did with most of the women that stayed till the evening but I think yeah I think you're right I think you just get that warmth you just know who you're to connect with in life don't you and I think when you have the
Anneli Marinovich (10:53.444)
Mmm. Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (10:59.904)
the idea of when someone is empathic, you know, and you like, excuse me, they say the warmth, I think that just comes naturally for me around people, I just like making people feel comfortable. And actually, for that to resonate through clothing.
I probably don't shout about it enough, but so many people say like your hoodie is like wearing a hug. You know, your clothing is, there's so much personal and that's why I'm a personal brand, you know, rather than a huge brand that's trying to make it across the world.
Anneli Marinovich (11:19.974)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (11:27.642)
Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (11:31.078)
That's it. And I want to touch on this because we actually chatted about this last night. So let's just mention it. You know, as a small business serving women all over the world, our aim is to make people feel seen. And when I coach women, whether it's in my group coaching program or one-to-one, you know, they come to me with the challenges they are facing and very often they just want someone to listen. It's not
You know, I don't always just talk about protein, even though I talk about protein a lot. The fact of the matter is we are serving these women in a way that is so special and it's so authentic. And that is not something that you get from bigger brands. basically the reason I bring this up now is if you are a self-employed woman, you'll understand this. We work very hard to create the content.
We show up in a way that makes women feel seen and we try to offer up what it is that we get really passionate about. But it's so hard nowadays to actually get your content out there and to actually reach the people that you want to reach just because of the nature of social media. And obviously there is so much out there it's almost overwhelming. But I just wanted to mention this, if you're listening to this podcast or you're watching this on YouTube, you need to hit that button. You need to click subscribe or like because
Vanessa Ridout (12:48.835)
Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (12:53.19)
We are sat here as two self-employed women over 40, so we are facing all the battles right now, okay? But we are just here to create what we love and to create things that help you. So, yeah, I think what I'm trying to say is just, don't just watch and consume content from women like us. Support us because we are here to support you.
Vanessa Ridout (12:58.243)
Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (13:06.744)
I would say three.
Vanessa Ridout (13:10.734)
Thank you.
Vanessa Ridout (13:14.744)
And that's where I think the that it makes me a little bit sad about it all. You know, when you come together and you do things visually and you actually meet people in person, it's so amazing. You've got that connection and you're trying to get that across on your social media life. So for me, Instagram is my key area of community.
But actually what we're seeing is women are just going online because they're scrolling through to get the support, like you say, that when you do finally connect with somebody, like you said a minute ago, I actually get women talking to me about their personal life. And I've made so many friends and actually I can name the first four people that are going to comment on my posts.
and they're all people that I would happily meet in person because they put so much, not just the finances into buying from my business, they are fully supportive of me and there's a saying that goes at the moment, you're getting more support from Instagram strangers, which I don't like to call them that, than you are your own friends and family and let's be honest, they're all there at beginning going tap, tap, tap, like, like, like, share, share, share, now they're all like, ugh, not another boring post.
Anneli Marinovich (14:26.928)
Yeah, it's an actual thing. They always say, you know, you've made it when, you know, it's not just your family and friends kind of buying from you, commenting on your content. So and that and that, to be honest, I that is one of the reasons I started this podcast because I want to create a footprint. I want to be able to reach women far and far and wide. And I think that is, you know, that's where the joy comes from, isn't it? But it's it's frustrating and it's hard. And actually, this is a very nice segway
Vanessa Ridout (14:28.046)
Really sad because we were working so hard.
Anneli Marinovich (14:56.934)
into us chatting a little bit about menopause and perimenopause. So we are in different stages. I'm 43 this year, 44? I don't know, somewhere around there. But I am in the thick of perimenopause and it's also what inspired me to launch Mind and Muscle Beyond 40 last year because everything changed when I turned 40.
Vanessa Ridout (15:11.184)
I I can't say, I won't say.
Anneli Marinovich (15:25.094)
From my own perspective, being a very fit, active, healthy, strong woman, always been into weight training, not always, but at least for the last 20 years, everything changed in the way that I have to take care of myself. And I don't think I quite realized that until last year was the year that basically broke me. But it's being put in situations like that where you realize the value of actually taking time for yourself, but also that it's okay to feel certain things and
But then lastly, having the support system around you for you to be able to cope with these situations. And you and I have had many chats about this. But I think what's interesting for me with our conversation is we're coming at this from two different perspectives. I have chosen not to have children. So I have a very cute little mini Schnauzer and that's the extent of my motherhood. But I feel like sometimes this is something we chatted about as well.
Vanessa Ridout (16:16.59)
You
Anneli Marinovich (16:22.202)
There still is that stigma around women who have chosen not to have children and so it's easier for us. And when it comes to perimenopause and hormonal changes, cetera, I guess it's true in a sense that I don't have those other responsibilities, but I struggle just as much in terms of showing off my business, taking care of myself, dealing with the emotions and the highs and the lows.
So I guess, you know, do you want to share a little bit about your journey with menopause and...
Vanessa Ridout (16:54.658)
Yeah, I mean, I there's something to be said about what we spoke about the other day. Yes, I have four children. I've been on my own with them for quite a few years now. Two adults, two, well, four adults, two still live with me. But it is hard and it's...
But like we spoke about, it's hard either way. So whether you're waking up and feeling unmotivated, unlike yourself, you know, which is absolutely fine and okay, whether you're functioning to provide for your family or whether you're functioning to show up, to me, it all roots down to the same thing. You know, we're all struggling with admitting that sometimes we don't cope. And I think there's a huge stigma of them and I would be the first one to hold my hands up to this.
about masking behaviour which is quite a huge thing in menopause because a lot of people that suffer with ADHD mask it, that don't know they have ADHD that then it shows a up even more in perimenopause and menopause. So my journey compared to someone without having children, I would say
Anneli Marinovich (17:47.558)
Mmm.
Anneli Marinovich (17:58.342)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa Ridout (18:08.832)
I think however you wake up and however your whatever your stressors are, so stressors mostly are, love them dearly when they see this, you're still facing the same day, know, I mean, let's not quote that Molly May quote of 20, everyone's got the same 24 hours in the same day, but let's be honest, you know,
life brings challenges, whatever, whether you've got kids or not. And to be honest, having gone through menopause for coming up for 14 years, you know, I just think when's it ending? When's it ending? I'm sure my kids are saying, when is it ending? You know? Yeah, yeah. And do know what the thing is?
Anneli Marinovich (18:50.188)
Mm, mm.
And they were at different stages, so. Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (18:58.744)
Says no, there is no, do you know the biggest thing I would say to anyone listening to this is every day is different and I've tried all sorts of medication. I would love to say I should be doing more fitness but unfortunately sometimes I don't feel like it. know, sometimes I haven't got that get up and go.
Anneli Marinovich (19:05.574)
Mmm.
Anneli Marinovich (19:15.302)
Yeah, I think that's something really important that you've hit on there because I've had this conversation with a lot of the ladies in my group coaching program. In fact, the most recent conversation was I just don't understand what is wrong with me. I just can't seem to get my ass into gear. And that is a narrative that is again, there's a lot of blame, isn't there? We blame ourselves. We just can't seem to, but it's just not that simple.
because you're not feeling yourself. And there's a lot to be said for, yes, you should motivate yourself, give yourself a little pep talk, but it doesn't work. It doesn't always work.
Vanessa Ridout (19:53.422)
you
It doesn't work. And you know, the biggest thing that I'm actually quite into biohacking in certain areas myself, you know, don't get me wrong, there's ways in my, my lifestyle I need to change. But the key thing here, and if I could get a microphone and stand on the top of parliament building and say this, if you don't get your, element of your body where you are starting your day off without cortisol and stress, you are just going to spiral into the binge eating, the cravings, the, and honestly, I feel like
I could write a book on it, you know, it's, and I'm not even nutritionally trained, but I'm old enough and wise enough to know what makes my day start well. Like I've started taking creatine, you know, a few weeks ago, a few months ago, and I take protein, take collagen, magnesium, all of the stuff you can imagine, MCT oils, you know, I could be plugging wheel powders here, but.
Anneli Marinovich (20:36.07)
Game changer.
Anneli Marinovich (20:47.302)
Mmm.
Anneli Marinovich (20:50.938)
Love that.
Vanessa Ridout (20:53.39)
Do you know what? And the thing is, and I was on top of my game and then you just forget to take one one day, then there's a slippery slope. Someone, something in your life will be causing you stress or you're feeling emotional. And then it's just, it's a downward spiral. that, imagine how many women are going through that right now from 30, potentially 36 up until 60, 60 odd. It's really sad.
Anneli Marinovich (20:59.3)
Mm-hmm.
Anneli Marinovich (21:15.086)
I think it is and I think it's really important that you've mentioned that. Firstly, all of those supplements are the supplements that I'm shouting about in my program all the time. I love it. You've basically ticked all of them off. Creatine, so important. Not just for physical but for brain health. my goodness, so important. But the second thing you've mentioned there is the age. You know, I went, when I went to see the GP for the first time, when I just wasn't feeling like myself and I just, I was noticing changes in my body and just skin drying, hair thinning.
Vanessa Ridout (21:25.11)
What? Yeah. No, absolutely.
Anneli Marinovich (21:44.794)
all of these things and she basically straight up just said to me you're too young and I kind of thought well no I might be too young for the average but ultimately lifestyles and there's so many reasons that women go into perimenopause earlier now and you should be open to having these conversations so the one thing I will say while we're on the topic is you need to advocate for yourself you know your body better than anyone else if you're not feeling yourself please please make keep track of what's going on with your body and I actually have a free
symptom tracker, if you go onto the website that you can download and print out and just use. But the point is, it's noticing the things that are changing your body over time. So when I went to see her the second time, I had about, you know, I don't know, six, eight months worth of notes that I kept and I could almost like not just show her and go see, I told you, but it was to see, okay, can, these things are getting better or worse. And then if you are going to start HRT, it helps to keep track of how you're feeling because that is in itself as an experimentation.
So you need to be open to experimenting, number one. And number two, know that there's no one size fits all approach. And number three, the form of HRT that works for someone else might not work for you. So it's just, you know.
Vanessa Ridout (22:44.77)
No.
and
Vanessa Ridout (22:54.85)
Yeah. And actually, you know, having tried, because I have my ovaries and my uterus removed, but I still have my cervix. I'm quite happy to talk about it. I've tried all sorts of HRT, you know, I'm permanently on oestrogen now. I was told to come off progesterone because the uterine.
lining was safe. So you trust everything that you hear and you know there's so many professional celebrities that are talking about it. Even there there's conflicting opinions and but you know what if there's one thing that I I do need to practice it rather than preach it and you know this this is what your whole MMB40 40 is about.
Getting out in the fresh air, vitamin D, know, exercise. When I don't exercise, yeah, moving, just moving. Just taking the dog out for a walk for half an hour can change your whole day. And that's where my, I think when my clothes came into it, because I just thought I'm working from home a lot. I'm in my lounge wear a lot, you know. I want people to feel comfortable. Not everybody is going out to work, it's all suited and booted. And that's where the affirmations came in of, you know, same as your
Anneli Marinovich (23:44.006)
Move your body. Yep. Move it.
Mm. Mm.
Anneli Marinovich (24:00.602)
Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (24:07.078)
Mmm.
Vanessa Ridout (24:08.528)
business and all the positivity that comes from that from MMB40 40 is the same as how I feel in people wearing their clothes. Once you feel comfortable for your day and you start your day well you think you're laughing. Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (24:18.502)
That's it. Yeah. Your morning routine is one of the key things. And one of the biggest things I find with the women that I work with is the lack of a morning routine. they don't have, don't, what you were saying about cortisol is so true. And unfortunately for us, it leads to a plethora of other issues, i.e. know, belly fat and things like that, which then has a knock on effect to our confidence. And it's a vicious circle. But the point is when some, it's not really just someone saying to you, you need to manage your stress.
you need to put into place systems that help you cope better with whatever happens the rest of the day. So if you start your day with a little walk, fresh air, some vitamin D, or just some meditation or whatever your form of mindset work is, I can honestly tell you, if I don't sit down in the morning, I usually get up around five and then do a few stretches, because I'm a long tall Sally, so if I don't, I know about it.
And then I'll go downstairs do some reading and just do some affirmations and things like that when I don't do that and what you saying before about not doing something for a day or two I know about it immediately something will set me off or I'll find the day, you know There'll be a reason why I don't feel as in control as I normally would so it's putting these into place That's important. But also knowing that you can always come back to it. So when you fall off the wagon, so to speak
because that's the other thing we struggle with. feel guilty all the time. I'm failing again. I didn't do that thing again. again, I didn't get to the gym three times a week. So one of the big things that I shout about is celebrating the little things. If you did one thing today, celebrate it, right?
Vanessa Ridout (25:45.815)
Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (25:52.13)
We're so unkind to ourselves.
Yeah, sorry. Absolutely. I think.
At beginning of the business, I was doing a lot of quotes and sending affirmation cards out with all of the products because so many women were struggling with their self-worth and actually just practicing gratitude every day. teach my children that. Don't wake up and feel entitled that your day is going to be OK. This is where it all stems from. We're not entitled to have those feelings of self-worth and
and your expectations be met because they're not, you you have to work really hard for it.
Anneli Marinovich (26:33.914)
Exactly. Yeah, it's a blessing and it's something that was reinforced for me again last year when I lost my mum and I realised, not even because our parents get older and we realise that, you know, it's part of life, grief, but navigating grief even at this stage is forcing me to look at everything with a fresh perspective.
And you know, there are days when everything goes wrong and I think, what is the point of any of this? And then I sit and I close my eyes and I go, but you get to be here and you get to do this thing and you get to experience the sunrise tomorrow. So it's that change of perspective that's so important, which is why I love what the Epiphany closet stands for, because it's that positive reinforcement all the time. The only difference is it's on a cute sweater or a piece of clothing that makes you feel amazing. So.
Vanessa Ridout (27:23.468)
Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (27:29.454)
It's twofold, isn't it? Because the mindset part for us as we navigate, know, menopause, perimenopause, it's your mind that can either be your biggest enemy or your biggest ally.
Vanessa Ridout (27:41.422)
Yeah, well, I mean, I used to read the book called The Chimp, know, and gosh, it's so true, you know, we've apparently got the little chimp sitting on our shoulder saying, oh, you don't look nice today. I mean, I woke up the other day, was like, oh my gosh, the state of my hair. And I was like, stop talking to yourself so negatively. I wouldn't say it to any of my friends.
Anneli Marinovich (27:58.086)
Yeah.
Yeah. Exactly, you wouldn't say to a friend. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (28:03.948)
You wouldn't, and it's all over Instagram and it's all over social media. But we still do it. We're still critical to ourselves. But it's been inbred into us from such a age that skinny, I mean, you know, that's not necessarily an appropriate word, but let's be honest. Skinny was, you know, but in our day, that's what it was, wasn't it? You know, skinny looked better.
Anneli Marinovich (28:15.568)
Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (28:21.648)
Mmm. Smaller. Smaller is better.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Vanessa Ridout (28:28.46)
But now we're moving on to finding a bit more comfort within ourselves. But it's just about getting that balance. Being body confident can come across as people not caring what they look like. And then actually you're not really in a very healthy zone just because you're feeling body confident. It's just about getting a balance.
Anneli Marinovich (28:33.21)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (28:47.896)
It is and it's being honest with yourself and body image is something that I have navigated in my own life for years. Having gone through a journey of being really overweight and having grown up with a mum that would say things to me about my weight and I still haven't forgotten those things, you never do.
Vanessa Ridout (29:08.135)
yeah, my nan used tell me what lovely chunky thighs I've got. Exactly. Yeah, Bonnie said they used to call them, you know, and I'm proud of them. I've got netball legs.
Anneli Marinovich (29:12.656)
Hey, big thighs save lives, man.
Anneli Marinovich (29:21.446)
I tell you what, they're gonna serve you well when you're older, you know? But no, I think it's loving yourself enough to be able to focus on your positives and knowing that you don't have to be perfect. None of us are perfect. And I'm actively trying to embrace the things that is part of naturally getting older. Yes, I drink collagen, it's great. I still got wrinkles. The lines around the eyes still happening, but I do the things now that I think will serve me when I'm 80.
Vanessa Ridout (29:24.268)
Exactly, exactly.
Anneli Marinovich (29:49.668)
Things like that, you mentioned biohacking, know, doing these things now because I know my 80 year old self will thank me for that. And that is again the reason why I started MMB40. Aging strong, who cares about being skinny? I don't want to be a frail old lady. I want to be strong. I want to be able to carry all my own shopping when I'm 80, you know? So it's changing that narrative and I'm really grateful that, you know, there are women like us out there flying the flag for that and there is a lot of content on about social, on social media.
Vanessa Ridout (29:55.984)
Mm.
Vanessa Ridout (30:06.724)
Yeah, absolutely.
Anneli Marinovich (30:16.912)
So it's definitely become a lot more common knowledge that we need to take better care of ourselves and age strong, which is exactly why we're doing this episode. So one thing that I did want to mention was, you know, we chatted last night a little bit about the sort of invisible woman myth. And it's something that is so prevalent for me, especially when women turn 40 and they head into their 50s and 60s, you know, starting to feel like you're actually becoming invisible and that you don't matter.
When in reality, if framed correctly, if you can change your mindset and surround yourself with women who lift you up and are saying things like this to you, you will realize that your 40s, your 50s, your 60s can be an incredible season of power and strength if you embrace it and you figure out how to work with your body, not against it. And one of those things is your self-worth and your self-esteem. So doing things that make you feel better, i.e.
wearing a jumper that makes you feel like you love yourself, know, reinforcing that. But yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (31:20.356)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, yeah, I think, I think it's really, I think you've just hit a really good point. I think the trouble is we are sort of, we were conditioned to not shrink, well, yeah, shrink. We just, we were meek women, you know, we're coming into a new generation now where, you know, and bringing into the International Women's Day where it sort of links with...
give to gain, you we want to give back to people. We know what we're doing is right. know, you and I know where to go and what to do. But there's so many people that don't. And actually you hit on something then about, we talked about, know, skinny was a trend. I know women that are really slim, really slim and slight, and they're desperate to get bulkier. They're desperate to look after their body. And they can't because it's just how their frame is. But...
Anneli Marinovich (31:48.56)
Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (32:09.275)
Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (32:14.018)
It just goes to show I generally think you hit 40 and you, your 40s and you just start, it's all about, it is about mindset. It's all about wisdom. You gain wisdom and you start making different journey.
Anneli Marinovich (32:23.12)
Yeah. Yeah.
You do.
You do. I think the sooner you lean into, so part of the, of the group coaching program that I've got every morning, I drop a little daily affirmation into the group at 6 a.m. So it's kind of like, listen to it, don't listen to it. But if you listen to it, you'll feel great. But this morning's affirmation was all around growth mindset versus fixed mindset. And it's something that I've spoken about so much, even before I launched the business, because I'm grateful for my husband. He's basically a growth mindset junkie.
So he got me into it. But over the years, I've realized that if you have a perspective where you see every challenge as an opportunity or you reframe what you're looking at. So instead of saying, I'm too old to build muscle, you reframe it to say that I need to change the way that I'm doing things so I can build muscle. So it's kind of not seeing everything is fixed. And I see this on a weekly basis. So I teach a strength class on a Monday night. And when I see these women, most of the women in my class are
45 plus I'd say, few or a bit younger, but a lot of the women who come will say similar things to me every week about their bodies, about how they're feeling, about the exhaustion, and then we have a little bit of a conversation where I try and help them, but the main thing is not their bodies, it's their mindset. It's the fact that they feel stuck and they can't quite see a way of getting out of it, and so...
Anneli Marinovich (33:53.816)
You and I both know in doing what we do, you know, the only way to get unstuck is to do something. But very often it's just not that obvious. again, I'm loving the fact that with International Women's Day as well, I love the fact that what we're creating is we are giving, we are giving these women the tools to take better care of themselves. And it doesn't have to cost you heaven and earth. Small tweaks make a big difference.
Vanessa Ridout (34:11.684)
Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (34:16.238)
No.
Well, I think the trouble is we were talking about what people are spending their money on and when you think about HRT mostly is free for most people and if you can get on it or if you need it then it's certainly a start to where you need to get into programming how you feel.
Before we just head on to the International Women's Day thing and come in together, I really wanted to share something that I think is not shared enough. I mean, it probably is by celebrities, but I am really, really hopeful that people like us get heard because we are actually living in it and can tell the stories rather than reading from a textbook.
You're born with oestrogen in your body and progesterone and testosterone, all of the hormones that you need. You're born with a level thyroid function. Now, what women aren't seeing is what they're going through in menopause when your eggs are decreasing and your body's declining.
you're ageing so you're loosing, sorry, you're depleting it all so you're losing all of it. So this is even some of my friends didn't even know that that's what menopause was. They didn't know that they didn't have oestrogen anymore. They didn't know that they haven't got potestorone and it, you know, no. But it's crazy to think that women still don't know that what our body is doing in ageing is we're not getting weaker
Anneli Marinovich (35:27.706)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
We didn't have these conversations when we were younger, be our generation. Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (35:41.7)
What's happening hormonally,
Vanessa Ridout (35:43.374)
just because our skin's ageing, it's because you're losing all the hormones that you were born with, you're now losing them. By the time you're 60, you'll have none in your body. Now that's quite scary and that's why we need to look after and supplement ourselves, not just in NHS. I'm not just plugging NHS like HRT because you can do it, lot of women can do it naturally as well.
Anneli Marinovich (35:48.87)
Mm-mm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (36:04.218)
Yeah. I honestly, I, you know, we've come a long way with HRT as well, you know, being told way back then, not us necessarily, but previous generations being told that it was dangerous and that it was linked to cancer, et cetera. There's so much research out now that actually proves that to be incorrect. But not just that, the fact that there are benefits for brain health. And if you've come from a family where there's any kind of history of cognitive decline.
Vanessa Ridout (36:26.788)
Yes.
Vanessa Ridout (36:33.061)
Mm.
Anneli Marinovich (36:34.326)
I cannot state this, like I would really encourage you to look at HRT and one of the biggest things that I found in all the different research that I've done for the program is to start earlier. To not wait for the car to go off the cliff before you actually start because at that point what you've just said is so right. Why are you waiting until the very end of whatever oestrogen you've got left before you start it? Why not phase it in sooner so that
Vanessa Ridout (36:47.374)
Yes.
Anneli Marinovich (37:01.944)
it's a smoother ride instead of falling off a cliff and then you try and manage what's happened. So I think it's nice that we've had a very honest conversation about that because, you know, yeah, I went onto HRT when I was 42, which is very young. But at the same time, I knew that I had to do something and I knew that I had to at least find a route that would not just preserve my brain, but also bone density. We don't think about those things. But when you lose oestrogen,
Vanessa Ridout (37:16.848)
Mm.
Vanessa Ridout (37:26.618)
Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (37:29.498)
you start losing more muscle, bone density and all of those things. So again, it's thinking about yourself when you're in your eighties. Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (37:35.172)
Absolutely.
I did a walk with Menopause Mandate in October 23 with Carol Vorderman and a few other, think Lisa Snowden was there and some other celebrities and it was really lovely. It was when it was all going to Parliament and you know, we were starting to get talked about more. And like you said earlier, know, HRT doesn't, it's not one size fits all, but the sooner we don't sit in denial about it and you know, start acting on it before it happens.
Anneli Marinovich (37:43.302)
Wow.
Vanessa Ridout (38:06.975)
you know, the better. I mean, we could shout that from the rooftops. I mean, luckily it is all over the place. I know, I know. would, yeah. I mean, I'm not medically trained, but you know, after being years going through it, I know what works and I know what doesn't for me personally.
Anneli Marinovich (38:10.086)
We should do another episode, just on HRT Z.
Anneli Marinovich (38:18.724)
Yep.
Yeah, and to be honest, I think I've learned so much over the last year. think so I decided to qualify as a menopause coach last year and my goodness, I thought my brain would explode with everything I've learned. And that also then, you know, tied in with not just what you were saying about natural changes to your lifestyle, what you're eating, how you're moving, you know, I posted content yesterday about macronutrients. A lot of women don't even know what macronutrients are.
And so it's kind of taking a very grassroot approach at how we educate women. So, and again, that's why it's so nice to collaborate with the Epiphany closet on what we're doing for International Women's Day because we are taking the theme of ageing strong, we're combining it with self love and we are shouting it from the rooftops basically. So I did want to mention one thing before we should really have closed my inbox because now it's pinging, fantastic.
Vanessa Ridout (39:15.696)
Hahaha.
Anneli Marinovich (39:17.294)
I do want to mention one thing before we move on to just chatting about our collaboration for International Women's Day. One of the big things that you and I are champions of is a hands-on approach. know, making women feel seen and just doing things that make people feel special, not just being mass media, mass produced, whatever. So your big thing is obviously designing and pressing everything yourself, which is, can imagine, just incredible from a work point of view. But basically adding that layer.
sold to your product is what makes them so special and at this point I would like to share this beautiful
I don't know if you can see the color properly, but it's lavender and it's stunning.
Vanessa Ridout (40:00.13)
It is gorgeous, it does look lovely.
Anneli Marinovich (40:03.632)
So I've got branded MMB40 sweaters people, this is insane. And this lavender for spring, I'm gonna be swanning around in it everywhere. But the quality of this and it's so soft and I put it on the other day and I didn't wanna take it off and I just thought, I kinda wanna save it but I probably just want like five different ones in different colors. But it looks incredible. So you and I are collaborating but I just wanted to give you a massive shout out because the level of care.
and attention you take on these products and obviously the vest as well, the level of printing, the detail, the quality, incredible, love it.
Vanessa Ridout (40:36.144)
Thank you, yeah, it's definitely something I pride myself on. I think there's so much out there, you know, and there's so much competition. And do know what, I've actually stopped trying to compete because the people that are in your community are the people that stay and know your brand. you you can try and be so big, but actually quality and luxury and community, you know, it's at the forefront of my business. It's a big passion.
Anneli Marinovich (40:47.323)
Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (40:53.027)
Exactly.
Anneli Marinovich (41:05.252)
I love that. And that's why it's, that's why it works so well. That's why, you know, people keep coming back, isn't it? if you're watching, sorry, if you're listening to this podcast on Spotify, you won't have seen the beautiful sweater. So you're to have to go over to YouTube to see the little video clip of the sweater. If you want to see what I'm talking about, but you and I are collaborating for international woman's day and we will be creating content. We will be sharing each other's messages on both our websites. So keep an eye out for our social media.
Vanessa Ridout (41:05.614)
I'm glad you're here.
Vanessa Ridout (41:09.999)
Yes.
Anneli Marinovich (41:35.014)
on what the sort of exact collaboration is, but it's essentially combining our two passions of ageing strong with the power of self-love and giving women the platform to not just feel better about themselves, but actually remind themselves how amazing they are.
Vanessa Ridout (41:52.686)
Absolutely. Listen, we've got to be here to shout about ourselves from the rooftops, know. Start loving yourself. I mean, we don't always find it that easy, let's be honest. It's not, you know, every day is different.
Anneli Marinovich (42:04.87)
Yeah, and that's the whole reason, isn't it? It's having a community like this around so that on the days when you don't feel great, you can tap into it. You know where to go. That's a thing. So I thought we would kind of end the episode with a bit of a... just a kind of, I thought it'd be a cool question to ask you. So I'd love to hear if you had one piece of advice for a woman feeling invisible after 40, what would that be? If you could give them one piece of advice.
Vanessa Ridout (42:36.142)
My advice would be just because we're ageing doesn't mean we have to shrink. don't have to... Do you know there's an old saying isn't there? Grow old gracefully. I think that was something my nan used to say.
I always think of Catherine Tate when I think of this because who wants to grow old gracefully? Let's be honest. All I would say is keep healthy, keep checking in on yourself, be kind to yourself and you know...
Anneli Marinovich (43:06.672)
Yeah.
Vanessa Ridout (43:12.974)
Just do the things that you've been putting off, which is linked with the My Hoodie Drop tomorrow. just thought I'd add that in. You know, do it anyway. Whatever you're scared of doing, don't put it off. Challenge yourself and do it anyway, because you'll never regret doing it, but you'll always regret not doing it. And that's biggest piece of advice.
Anneli Marinovich (43:19.642)
Love that.
Anneli Marinovich (43:29.304)
Exactly. that's good. That's so, so good. I love that. That is a wonderful note to end on. And actually, the other thing I was going to say was I will add links to our collaboration pages and to our social media and everything below this episode in the show notes and in YouTube in the description. So go and check that out. But I want to know if you could give someone a motivational quote or a feeling to wear for the day.
What would you put on your sweater today?
Vanessa Ridout (44:00.388)
My, well, I have one that has been the top seller and it's my favourite one. Little bit of something that I have struggled with in the past and that is just show up consistently. I think, you know, if you are consistent with what your goals are and what you really want to get out of life, you will make it. I think it's not easy to stay consistent, but showing up for yourself. You're not doing it for anybody else, you're doing it for you and that's really important.
Anneli Marinovich (44:29.286)
I love that. You and I are so aligned. Like literally everything we just said. Like I bang on about consistency more than I bang on about protein, but consistency doesn't mean perfection. And I think that's something that as well as women, we tend to forget because consistency can mean doing one thing, one tiny thing. Whereas we tend to think it has to be the biggest thing for it to make a difference, but it doesn't.
Vanessa Ridout (44:31.664)
Hahaha.
Vanessa Ridout (44:52.41)
no, actually, and that's something that I was going to say. If you manage one positive thing in a day off of your list that you really wanted to get done and you don't get the other five things done, then you need to pat yourself on the back for it, you know? I do need to start practicing that myself though.
Anneli Marinovich (44:57.818)
Yeah.
Anneli Marinovich (45:05.232)
That's it.
It made me laugh though because so Nessa sent me a reel last night about this business owner saying, didn't answer these emails, didn't respond to this and this and this just to create a piece of content that would get 17 likes 4 whatever and then 20 unfollows. And it made me laugh because I had a list as long as my arm yesterday of stuff that I need to do. And in the end, I think I answered a few emails and I made a reel.
Vanessa Ridout (45:32.9)
Yep.
Anneli Marinovich (45:33.7)
And I thought to myself, no, but this is important. This is an important piece of content, you know, and then you think to yourself, it's just, it's crazy. But I did give myself a pat on the back. So we need to do that more.
Vanessa Ridout (45:41.998)
Good. Well, if it makes you feel better, I spent about three hours trying to edit a video that I didn't like. And what we spoke about, I am going to be going on and doing a reel, just talking about, you know, guys, tap the button, show it some love. It's the only way we can grow on social media. Yeah, stop deem scrolling and tap like.
Anneli Marinovich (45:58.246)
Hit the button, leave the comment. You know, stop lurking, right? Don't be a doom scroller or a lurker. No one likes that. Well, since both our brands are very community focused, I thought I would ask you guys, if you're listening to this, I know you're watching this on YouTube, I want you to let us know in the comments, what's one word, what's the one word that you wanna wear on your chest today? Let us know in the comments.
And I want to know the answer from you as well. What's the one word you want to wear on your chest today?
Vanessa Ridout (46:33.156)
me.
just self-love per se. Self-love, you know, because it's covered such a huge scope, isn't it, of meaning, you know? Just love yourself. That's just the biggest word you can say. What about you? What would yours be?
Anneli Marinovich (46:41.883)
Love it.
Anneli Marinovich (46:52.4)
sums it up. That sums it up. My word is grateful because I'm immensely grateful for you coming onto this episode. It's been an absolute dream. You're my first guest on the podcast so thank you for, you know, being the first guest and it's an absolute... starting... I'm setting the bar real high so you know. But yeah, just grateful and really grateful for my beautiful MMB 40 merch.
Vanessa Ridout (47:06.979)
Loved it.
Anneli Marinovich (47:17.828)
and grateful that you and I get to collaborate. yeah, just in general, really grateful and also really grateful that it's Friday today. Well, so yeah, it's all good. Thank you so much for joining me Nessa. It's been an absolute dream. And yeah, I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did on Spotify, click the like button, subscribe and on YouTube make sure that you subscribe to the channel as well. Let us know your word in the comments. We'd love to know.
Vanessa Ridout (47:23.896)
Yes, 100%.
Vanessa Ridout (47:30.436)
Okay.
Anneli Marinovich (47:45.316)
And we will see you in the next episode and keep an eye out for our collaboration for International Women's Day. Thank you for joining us.
Vanessa Ridout (47:52.73)
Thanks.
